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Thread: Phil Galfond to start poker site

  1. #1
    Silver MrTickle's Avatar
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    Phil Galfond to start poker site

    A Poker Site Should

    A poker site should value poker players.

    It should value the casual player for the money he's willing to put on the line to play a game he loves. For choosing poker over other hobbies, and for choosing their site over other sites.

    It should value the enthusiast and semi-professional for the liquidity they provide and for growing the game. For spreading the word, across different mediums, about their favorite site.

    It should value the professional for embodying the dream that brings so many people to poker. For proving that poker is a game of skill. For promoting the game of poker to their fans, students, followers or subscribers.

    A poker site needs to believe in the dream of poker as a career. It shouldn't cater to professionals over other players, but it must make every policy change with the viability of the dream in mind.

    A poker site needs to be a software and user experience company. Like other software companies, it should be eager to mine the trove of knowledge, experience, ideas, and feedback that is its player base. It should seek to build a fun and engaging environment that all types of players enjoy playing in.
    A poker site should be transparent. It can't respond to every little idea, thought or wish, but it should do its best to explain its actions. It can't seek to please everyone by making changes that hurt the business, but it shouldn't ignore the public. It should be held accountable for the decisions it makes. It should be able to explain itself in a way that reasonable customers will understand.

    A poker site should believe in fairness. Not fairness for the sake of public image and profits, but fairness for fairness's sake. It shouldn't let honest players, professional or recreational, be taken advantage of by others exploiting unenforceable rules. It should seek to put a stop to predatory behavior and to cheating of any kind. It should strive to create as level a playing field as possible.

    A poker site should be agile in this ever-changing online environment. New ideas for improvement should be acted on. New advances in technology should be responded to. New problems should be met with creative solutions.

    A poker site should understand that it doesn't have to lose for the players to win. Poker operators, professionals, and non-professionals all have their goals/wants/needs and these lists aren't mutually exclusive. It is possible for policy changes to be a win-win-win, or a win-win-tie. The search for these changes should be never-ending.

    A poker site shouldn't obsess over where poker was five or ten years ago. It should seek to build a sustainable economy in the conditions of the present. It must continue to adapt to the climate.

    I want a fair, honest, transparent poker site that believes in the dream that I have lived.

    I'm going to give it my best shot.
    http://www.runitonce.com/chatter/a-poker-site-should/

  2. #2
    This is how rich guys go broke.

     
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      Shizzmoney: he might as well start a restaurant rep

  3. #3
    I have a feeling this is not gonna end well...

    hope for his sake he has some deep pocketed investors to help with the marketing or this is doomed to fail before it even begins...

    assuming he's gonna go the legal route and not the "rogue" route like ACR...that's gonna add to the cost because of all the bullshit state regs you have to deal with...

  4. #4
    Serial Blogger BeerAndPoker's Avatar
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    Just like Ivey Poker was going to be a thing too.

    In an ideal world the beliefs that Galfond is sharing are great for the players but a business has to make money otherwise their isn't a point.
    BeerAndPoker Blog: Click HERE
    Twitter: @BeersAndPokers

  5. #5
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    These are some nice ideas, but it's going to be an uphill battle.

    Very tough to unseat a leader, and Phil's not going to be serving the US market.

    I admire their commitment to transparency and fairness, as even Pokerstars does not have that.

    We will see what happens.

    I wonder who is backing this venture.

  6. #6
    Word is the new site name will be "Absolute Ultimate Full Epic Poker"

  7. #7
    Gold ftpjesus's Avatar
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    Wonder if hes going to the KGC for a license.. Apparently its only $35,000 to apply (of which $10k is refundable if the license is denied.. Anybody ever heard of the KGC denying a license I haven't).. Of course the caveat there is you have to run your servers through their provider which they control on their reservation in Quebec.. (don't ask me how I know all this )

     
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      Hockey Guy: How do you know all this?

  8. #8
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    I hope he succeeds, a monopoly over the market is never good for the consumers

    PokerStars are worse now than they ever were, and that's saying something

     
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      ftpjesus:
    BALLIN'!!

  9. #9
    Gold ftpjesus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ftpjesus View Post
    Wonder if hes going to the KGC for a license.. Apparently its only $35,000 to apply (of which $10k is refundable if the license is denied.. Anybody ever heard of the KGC denying a license I haven't).. Of course the caveat there is you have to run your servers through their provider which they control on their reservation in Quebec.. (don't ask me how I know all this )

    Looked into it once honestly.. Was curious what the requirements were considering that's how FTP got their license and ran their site.. Always thought of running a site if I had the cash on hand to start up and or had the partners to do so.. Hence part of my commentary on another thread as to find a way to run a site without running afoul like Micon did.. Technically I may have the ability here in AZ if I run it as rake free and just charge a monthly membership. AZ has some odd loopholes that if you aren't directly benefitting (ala Rake) social gambling is legal within the state.. The last few places to get raided were charging rake directly and therefore ran afoul of the law..If your charging a membership fee separately (would have to be monthly I believe to be legal and not some weird loophole of a membership fee per week or per session) and not collecting rake from the games and tournaments directly it would likely be legal and also would eliminate the risk of any player pool money as there would no reason to touch the funds of players as they could sit in say a bitcoin wallet for example and simply pay back out when somebody wished to cash out funds.. Still toying with the idea at this point and also going to get some legal opinions including if I must from the State itself using their own language in order to CYA.. I think it could be set up fairly reasonably and low overhead to make a modest income potentially on the membership side and offer some games a lot of sites don't possibly as well as the real positive of rakefree online poker in this day and age when everybody is bitching about the rake.. Who wouldn't want to find a place where they could play rake free for a small monthly membership fee.. The key is finding a way to be legal and run afoul of laws here in AZ shouldn't be too hard based on how they word the laws

    7. "Social gambling" means gambling that is not conducted as a business and that involves players who compete on equal terms with each other in a gamble if all of the following apply:


    (a) No player receives, or becomes entitled to receive, any benefit, directly or indirectly, other than the player's winnings from the gamble.

    (b) No other person receives or becomes entitled to receive any benefit, directly or indirectly, from the gambling activity, including benefits of proprietorship, management or unequal advantage or odds in a series of gambles.

    (c) Until June 1, 2003, none of the players is below the age of majority. Beginning on June 1, 2003, none of the players is under twenty-one years of age.

    (d) Players "compete on equal terms with each other in a gamble" when no player enjoys an advantage over any other player in the gamble under the conditions or rules of the game or contest.

    13-3302. Exclusions

    A. The following conduct is not unlawful under this chapter:


    1. Amusement gambling.

    2. Social gambling.


    3. Regulated gambling if the gambling is conducted in accordance with the statutes, rules or orders governing the gambling.

    4. Gambling that is conducted at state, county or district fairs and that complies with section 13-3301, paragraph 1, subdivision (d).

  10. #10
    Gold ftpjesus's Avatar
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    Did some more research. I thought there was a potential loophole in the law as stated about social gambling. However AZ law is also very implicit that taking rake (already knew this was illegal and was why several B&M poker rooms were shut down) but also it appears along those notes any perceived real net positive for a place (as stupid as a gift card give away at a restaurant hosting a weekly poker tourney could be illegal as if said restaurant were to gain extra business by receiving benefit from said gambling). Oh and yes charging a cover charge (i.e. A monthly membership fee) and not raking the poker cash and tournaments is also illegal in AZ. So pretty much they've destroyed any competition to the Indians here in AZ other than home poker games with no rake by the host player.

    "As defined in the statute (above), social gambling involves only players playing against each other, as in a poker game. No one but the players can win any prize or money. The venue hosting the gambling cannot promote or profit from the gambling, either by charging a fee in order to play, charging a cover charge or requiring a minimum purchase, taking a percentage of the pot. If the venue promotes, advertises, or encourages the gambling activity, then any increase in sales would be an indirect benefit, rendering the gambling illegal."

  11. #11
    Any update on what is going on with this new site?

  12. #12
    Silver MrTickle's Avatar
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    Finally, an update:

    https://www.runitonce.eu/news/1-an-update-and-a-plan/


    #1: An Update and a Plan

    Hey, all. It feels like a lifetime ago that I announced the impending launch of Run It Once Poker. I said that weíd be coming soon to provide a viable alternative in the online poker market - one that cares about and believes many of the things that you likely do.

    You rallied behind us, you pledged your support, you were ready and waiting to play and, unfortunately, we missed our target.

    Today, Iíd like to explain why that happened, provide an update on our progress, and discuss one of our core values that I intend to do a better job delivering on.

    A poker site should be transparent.
    You didnít hear many updates from me over this past year. There were good reasons for this, and if I had it to do over again Iím not sure what Iíd change, but Iím disappointed because I told you the kind of poker site we wanted to be and my infrequent updates gave you reason to doubt weíd follow through.

    Transparency is something that was, and still is, missing in online poker. Itís not easy for a large company to be transparent - Iím not criticizing or pointing fingers at other operators. Iím just stating, once again, that we at Run It Once believe very strongly in being as transparent as reasonably possible.

    In this update, and especially in the several that will soon follow (more on that later), Iím going to do my best to show you the level of transparency we intend to deliver.

    Whatís Been Going On?
    I know how common software development delays occur. I knew it before we started (though perhaps not as much as I know it now!). Believe it or not, I built a decent cushion into the estimate I was given for my first announcement.

    Our software delays werenít the typical delays that come with the territory. We made some significant missteps early in our software development (I donít just mean our tech team - Iím as much to blame as anyone) and it set us on a course thatís been very difficult to navigate.

    After a change in leadership early last year, our new tech team had to get acquainted with what was handed off to them, evaluate our options, and develop and propose a plan - not a quick process - and in the meantime we continued down the path we were on. Eventually, they came up with a plan they were excited about, but it wouldnít be an easy choice for us.

    One option was to stay the course, where weíd made significant progress but would be faced with slower future development.

    The other was to redo several things in a way that allowed for more flexibility and for us to create everything weíd dreamt up, but taking those steps backward meant a much later launch date.

    As a new plan was being developed and as we wrestled with our options, I didnít know what kind of update I could offer you all. So I kept quiet, even once we chose our path, because after my experience with the first announcement, I didnít want to make any promises that I couldnít keep.

    Our Decision
    So, what do you do when you canít choose between two options?

    We didn't want to push back launch even further, but it's extremely important to us that we bring all of our ideas to life, so we combined our options into one that we believe gives us the best of both worlds.

    We decided to stay on course and deliver part of our offering quickly while also working on changes that will allow much more flexibility in our development process going forward. This meant a sped up launch, but a slightly slower path to our final product.

    The result of this is that we will be launching Run It Once Poker in 2 phases.

    Weíve come far enough on Phase 1 that weíve just begun our private beta, which means Iím finally ready to announce a launch window.

    Phase 1 - Launching Summer 2018
    We didnít want to launch a subpar version of anything, so, with a long and difficult road ahead, we focused all efforts on our cash game offering.

    Our Phase 1 platform will provide cash games that (we think) look and feel great and include some exciting and innovative features.

    Tournaments will be added in Phase 2 (more on that below).

    We decided on this for a few reasons:

    We didnít want to release anything we arenít proud of, so launching with unpolished and partial versions of multiple offerings was off the table.
    We figured that youíd rather have something from us than to wait much longer for us to offer everything.
    We were furthest along on cash games, and even if we hadn't been, launching with tournaments only would be extremely challenging for a new site fighting for liquidity.
    What to Expect from Phase 1
    Though Phase 1 includes cash games only and wonít have all of the options and flexibility that will be in our final product (at least not right at launch), weíve built a product weíre proud of that will deliver on our vision and our values.

    A poker site needs to believe in the dream of poker as a career. It shouldn't cater to professionals over other players, but it must make every policy change with the viability of the dream in mind.
    We will set sensible rake for sustainable and beatable games.

    It should seek to build a fun and engaging environment that all types of players enjoy playing in.
    Weíll be offering a unique cash game experience, focused on fun and on pure, authentic poker.

    We will have an innovative player rewards system that I believe will make both pros and recreational players happy. One which will give slightly more rewards to dedicated pros while not leaving recreational players behind, will engage recreational players and pros alike, and will make it impossible for players to leave their rewards unclaimed - a big savings for many poker sites at the expense of uninformed amateurs and aloof pros like me!

    A poker site should believe in fairness... It shouldn't let honest players, professional or recreational, be taken advantage of by others exploiting unenforceable rules. It should seek to put a stop to predatory behavior and to cheating of any kind. It should strive to create as level a playing field as possible.

    New problems should be met with creative solutions.
    We will protect recreational players by eliminating or severely disincentivizing multiple forms of predatory behavior in many different ways, including some original concepts. As new threats arise, as they inevitably will over time, weíll find a way to fight back. We have been and will remain dedicated to making Run It Once a level playing field.

    We have some fun features and distinct policies that youíll have to wait to hear about, but I assure you that Run It Once Poker, even in Phase 1, will be different from the rest.

    What to Expect from Phase 2
    If you like our Phase 1 product, youíll love whatís coming in Phase 2. (Read this in an announcer voice. My voice wonít work.)

    Phase 2 will include:

    General software enhancements, more user options
    A distinct SNG offering
    An innovative Tournament experience
    An awesome nosebleed stakes offering, with several unique ideas from someone who's played these games for a long time and thinks he knows what they need!
    I just became ready to announce Phase 1, so Iím still a ways away from sharing estimates for Phase 2. Youíll hear from me on that once I have something concrete to tell you.

    So, Whenís the Next Update?
    As I alluded to, Iíll be working to deliver the transparency you were promised.

    The Phase 1 details above were left vague for a reason. Between now and our launch, I will be making several posts, each one dedicated to specific policies and features weíll have at Run It Once Poker.

    Iíll share the decisions we made and the concepts we came up with. Iíll explain exactly why we chose certain policies over others and Iíll detail the thought process behind our ideas, because thatís what the poker community deserves from a poker site.

    Iíll probably share some designs and other fun stuff along the way!

    The online poker landscape has changed since we began building Run It Once Poker. Some operators have made commendable improvements, while others have drifted even further from what we believe online poker should be.

    Weíre as excited as weíve ever been to play our part in pushing online poker in the right direction, and weíre doing everything we can to make it worth the wait.

    https://www.runitonce.eu/static/img/...live-poker.pngName:  long-live-poker.png
Views: 644
Size:  1.15 MB

     
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      sah_24: he loves that transparency word tho :)

  13. #13
    Site won't last 12 months.

  14. #14
    Cubic Zirconia
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    I wish Galfond would just go back to playing poker instead of lighting money on fire with fail businesses.

  15. #15
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    I know how common software development delays occur. I knew it before we started (though perhaps not as much as I know it now!). Believe it or not, I built a decent cushion into the estimate I was given for my first announcement.

    Our software delays werenít the typical delays that come with the territory. We made some significant missteps early in our software development (I donít just mean our tech team - Iím as much to blame as anyone) and it set us on a course thatís been very difficult to navigate.

    After a change in leadership early last year, our new tech team had to get acquainted with what was handed off to them, evaluate our options, and develop and propose a plan - not a quick process - and in the meantime we continued down the path we were on. Eventually, they came up with a plan they were excited about, but it wouldnít be an easy choice for us.

    If only someone with a software development AND longtime online poker background had offered to work with them....

  16. #16
    WSOP Only offered in three states. Is he going to compete against WSOP, the most established name in those markets? I see small player pools on sites in US states, so his site has 0% chance to succeed in US.

    Good luck with trying to compete against PS in international markets where PS has to deal with so many different regulations in each country. He will need millions to pay legal and regulatory fees before he makes his first $ in rake. This is going to end badly. Since most US players like myself that would try his site, will never have the option to play on his site.

    Any site needs to have any easy safe option for players to deposit $. Most sites seem to resort to dealing with shady payment processors since legit ones don't want to touch gambling sites. Getting his software working after two years will be the easiest hurdle he faces.

  17. #17
    Gold duped_samaritan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anchordraw View Post
    WSOP Only offered in three states. Is he going to compete against WSOP, the most established name in those markets? I see small player pools on sites in US states, so his site has 0% chance to succeed in US.

    Good luck with trying to compete against PS in international markets where PS has to deal with so many different regulations in each country. He will need millions to pay legal and regulatory fees before he makes his first $ in rake. This is going to end badly. Since most US players like myself that would try his site, will never have the option to play on his site.

    Any site needs to have any easy safe option for players to deposit $. Most sites seem to resort to dealing with shady payment processors since legit ones don't want to touch gambling sites. Getting his software working after two years will be the easiest hurdle he faces.
    I believe he said he has no intention of ever allowing US players.

    My guess is he's investing 10's of millions on the business as a whole.

    If it were anyone besides Galfond, I would give them a 0% chance of success. The guy is super smart though, can afford to wait a long time before being profitable and I can't think of anyone with a better reputation in the poker world.

  18. #18
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by duped_samaritan View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by anchordraw View Post
    WSOP Only offered in three states. Is he going to compete against WSOP, the most established name in those markets? I see small player pools on sites in US states, so his site has 0% chance to succeed in US.

    Good luck with trying to compete against PS in international markets where PS has to deal with so many different regulations in each country. He will need millions to pay legal and regulatory fees before he makes his first $ in rake. This is going to end badly. Since most US players like myself that would try his site, will never have the option to play on his site.

    Any site needs to have any easy safe option for players to deposit $. Most sites seem to resort to dealing with shady payment processors since legit ones don't want to touch gambling sites. Getting his software working after two years will be the easiest hurdle he faces.
    I believe he said he has no intention of ever allowing US players.

    My guess is he's investing 10's of millions on the business as a whole.

    If it were anyone besides Galfond, I would give them a 0% chance of success. The guy is super smart though, can afford to wait a long time before being profitable and I can't think of anyone with a better reputation in the poker world.
    Galfond seems like a nice and genuine guy, so I'm rooting for him to succeed.

    With that said, it appears from the latest update that, unfortunately, nobody involved with this new site has any idea what they fuck they're doing.

    The basic cliffs of his update:

    - They had a software team working on the project which was slow and basically failed miserably

    - They fired the software team and hired another one, which appears to be better. However, the new team says that the previous work was garbage, and they basically have to start fresh in order to build the great site Galfond and friends envisioned.

    - Given that the site's ever-delayed launch date has become a running joke in poker, they've decided to launch with the crappy first software -- but only cash games, with no tournaments. Once the second version of the software is complete, they will relaunch it with tournaments also included.



    While I feel for his position, and it's not an easy spot to be in, he should have just sucked it up and delayed it further.

    We already saw what happened when a site opened early with terrible proprietary software, with the promise to improve later (Ultimate Poker).

    By the time the new, better site is up and running, the word-of-mouth of the existing site will be bad, and no one will have an interest in showing up to play the new site.

    We've already waited 2+ years for this site to come up. Might as well just make it a little longer and do it right, rather than rush to market with a failproduct.

    Furthermore, I am not understanding the market for this site. Is it 2+2 type grinders? Even if players ignore the software's limitations, they will likely find that the games suck, because they will be playing other 2+2 grinders. I'm not seeing anything in their marketing strategy which will entice fish to play, and in fact Galfond is already claiming they are going to be "slightly favoring" the pro player over the rec player when it comes to rewards, which is already a sign of being clueless of the current market conditions.

    Furthermore, cash games are often somewhat fed by tournament money. A tournament player wins big money in a donkament, then feels empowered to play cash games where he's dead money, and he gets crushed. So a lot of the money "won" in tournaments is cycled back into the cash tables, which is great for the poker site. This is a big reason why Pokerstars quickly exploded in popularity shortly after their 2002 launch. They were the first site to run tournaments (or at least the first one with any kind of decent traffic). Those tournaments fed their cash games, and the site grew exponentially.

    Galfond is basically returning to the 1998 Planet Poker model by offering only cash games, and that's not at all a good look.

    I think Galfond's team is probably missing a knowledgeable "industry guy" -- someone who understands what makes a poker site tick, what drives traffic, how the site's economy needs to stay afloat, and what the average player (both pro and rec) finds most important in a poker site.

    It seems they are just shooting from the hip, without this knowledge. This is exactly the type of position I pitched for myself to Galfond -- an older, industry-wise guy who could use his nearly 2 decades of experience to say, "No, this is a horrible idea."

    Not that it would have to be me. My radio co-host, khalwat, also would have been great for such a position, as would many other people with deep understanding of the online poker industry and the players who occupy it.

    I'm not optimistic. This doesn't seem like it's going to work.

  19. #19
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Major new update: https://www.runitonce.eu/news/2-layi...-9-20-16_1-two

    Basically Phil is saying the following:

    - HUDs not allowed
    - Semi-anonymous tables. You will be given a fake name for the day, and will keep that name for 24 hours, then it will change again.
    - Hand histories will be made available 24 hours after you play, with everyone's hole cards revealed

    These ideas aren't bad. BUT...

    - Avatars will automatically show emotions related to player's playstyle





    Read on to see why this sucks...

  20. #20
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Their software is basically going to commit the cardinal sin in poker: The venue will be telling a player that he's bad.

    Most people who play poker -- even the fish -- have a delusion that they're far better than they actually are.

    The weak-tight guy doesn't think he's weak tight. He thinks he's just smart enough to wait for the best hands and is sure get his money in the best spots.

    The tiltmonkey doesn't think he's a tiltmonkey. He just thinks he is aggressive, and that aggression is a necessary skill to win in poker.

    The inconsistent/weird player doesn't think he's making a lot of inexplicably dumb moves. He thinks he's being unpredictable and hard to read.

    Now the software is going to label everyone:



    "You're too tight, so we're making you a sleepy guy! See that, everyone! This guy is so tight that he must be sleeping! LOL!!!"

    "You're playing like a tilting head case, so we're giving you a screaming lady avatar! Get it, guys? He's playing like a woman on her period! ROFL!!!!"

    "You're playing like a weirdo with inconsistent, suboptimal moves! So guess what? We're going to make it look like you're drunk and/or retarded. Isn't that hilarious? This player is a retard! AHAHAHAHA!!"

    This is an absolutely dreadful idea.

    The site should NOT be auto-labeling players with its opinion of their playstyle.

    I've played with so many people -- mostly recs -- who were COMPLETELY UNAWARE that their playstyle was unusual/bad/different.

    These avatars are basically playstyle-shaming. If you don't play well, everyone will see it in your avatar.

    Ugh.

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