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Thread: MGM National Harbor takes funds out of Bad Beat Jackpot for tournament seats (also, apparently there are harmful fumes in the poker room)

  1. #1
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    MGM National Harbor takes funds out of Bad Beat Jackpot for tournament seats (also, apparently there are harmful fumes in the poker room)

    Two unflattering stories out of the DC area, regarding poker at MGM National Harbor.

    First, they just held a tournament, where the 3 Main Event seats awarded could possibly come from the cash game bad beat jackpot:

    Name:  mgm-national.png
Views: 451
Size:  238.5 KB


    Look at the term next to the red arrow.

    MGM National Harbor is Guaranteeing 3 Main Event Seats daily.

    Any shortfalls from the guarantee will be paid from the poker jackpot reserve fund.

    So basically, if a particular day doesn't get enough buyins, they will dip into the cash game bad beat jackpot to pay for the 3 Main Event seats they're guaranteeing as prizes.

    Shaaaaaaaaaaady.

    Is this legal?

    Yes.

    Since the money is coming from poker players and being paid back to poker players, the legal requirements for the Bad Beat Jackpot are being satisfied.

    Did it happen?

    I don't know. Nobody reported it did. Apparently this is a well-attended series, so the chance of this happening isn't too high.

    They did it the same way in 2017, and this is what Tournament Director Johnny Grooms had to say about it:

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Grooms
    In the process of adressing. Will likely deduct 1% from all tourney prize pools to add to the jackpot reserve. This accomplishes the contribution some players like to see.

    I understand your position, but hopefully you can see that using the BBJ reserve to cover these is +EV for the room. It attracts players to cash games that otherwise likely wouldn't be there. In the strictest terms, i wish there was no BBJ or promotions, but it's there, and competitors use it to their advantage. Were I not to do this, I would be at a competitive disadvantage.

    I actually did the tournament deductions at Beau Rivage in MS.... will have to examine whether MLGCA will allow.
    Source: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=2388

    The 1% idea (proposed last year) doesn't help any. It's just a shell game. If that were done, and the guarantee WAS hit, then 1% of the tournament prize pool would be siphoned into the cash games, which is just as bad.

    As far as I can see, they didn't end up taking the 1% this year, and I'm assuming that idea died.


    What would be fair?

    Either don't guarantee those seats (or don't have them in the first place), or at the very minimum, take a percentage out of each tournament buyin for a tournament-only reserve fund, which could be used in these situations.

    Since they went with this "take from the BBJ fund if necessary" approach again in 2018, it appears that's what they're going to stick with.


    FYI, Johnny Grooms was the tournament director for the WSOP when it first came to the Rio in 2005. He was the one who awarded me my bracelet. I heard rumors that he left the WSOP under suspicious circumstances, but I never got confirmation of this. Jack Effel took over his job in 2007.

  2. #2
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Also, there's this recent issue, where fumes from the kitchen are making their way into the high limit section:

    I’ve had a bad cough and headache every day since the new room opened. They both start almost immediately after getting to the table, improve significantly when I leave the high stakes platform and go away altogether after staying away from the poker room for 24 hours. I was planning to play yesterday but had to take a day away from the room hoping that my cough would go away. With the kitchen being directly next to the raised platform the air quality really suffers. If there’s anything that can be done to fix the circulation and ventilation in and around the kitchen it would dramatically improve the experience on the high stakes platform.
    Source: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=4551


    Johnny Grooms agreed that this problem is real:

    Quote Originally Posted by Johnny Grooms
    Thanks for the observation. We are aware of the main root cause of the issue, which is the kitchens downstairs. We will address that issue first, assess the results, then move forward with any necessary solutions. The fix for this issue has been started, and it may take up
    To 6 weeks to receive the equipment and install.
    Source: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...postcount=4560


    Can you believe this shit?

    And this is a new property, not some old dump where air quality and health weren't considered during design.


  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Two unflattering stories out of the DC area, regarding poker at MGM National Harbor.

    First, they just held a tournament, where the 3 Main Event seats awarded could possibly come from the cash game bad beat jackpot:

    Name:  mgm-national.png
Views: 451
Size:  238.5 KB
    .
    .


    Did it happen?

    I don't know. Nobody reported it did. Apparently this is a well-attended series, so the chance of this happening isn't too high.
    100% chance there was an overlay in event 6.
    50k guarantee, 365 buy in.
    They got 151 entries (they needed 167)

    442xx

  4. #4
    I THINK (very big think) this is fine...obviously this depends on the MD/DC rules for their promo funds, but promo drop taken at cash games just has to be given back to the players...it doesn't necessarily have to be in the form of a BBJ...it can be done through a tournament where you have to play 'X' hours to get entry into the tourney...this is something that we did at one of the evil empire properties...we had a BBJ in one of the poker rooms and that room was in a funk so we decided to try to go the tourney route...we cleared it with gaming and were allowed to do it...

    only thing that's wrong about this is if they are just taking out of the promo fund and giving it to people who haven't contributed...kinda sucks, but from what I remember these drop funds are really fungable...as long as they find their way back to the players casinos can basically do with them as they please...

  5. #5
    Cubic Zirconia
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    This happened at the Horseshoe Cincinnati now the Jack Casino, the management started a promotional fund which they used to fund the BBJ and tournaments they ran. They would take the promo money and use to give away seats to the tournaments they ran. They also used in case of an overlay to a guarantee on any tournament.

    All the cash game players bitched for years about this that the promo was taken from cash and funding the tournaments. It made some juicy action because they gave away a lot of seats to cash game players but was still a bad practice.

    What got them to stop the practice? I’m not sure if they got sued or someone just went to the gaming commission either way they argued that the tournament seat wasn’t all going to the players. In other words the “seat” into the tournament was actually a tournament entry minus the tournament fee so only part of the money went to the player and the other part went to the casino. They argued that the casino was “paying themselves” by making it mandatory that the entry went for the tournament.

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