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Thread: Total Rewards / Caesars Q&A Session

  1. #1
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Total Rewards / Caesars Q&A Session

    Hi everyone.

    Over the past 3 years, I've become an expert on Caesars properties (especially ones located in Nevada/California) as well as the Total Rewards program.

    As anyone who plays the WSOP is forced to be part of this program, I am opening up this thread to be a Q&A session where I can clear up any misconceptions or questions you might have.

    Keep in mind that I'm actually a better source than most Caesars employees, as most are clueless about several things at their own company (I blame poor training and communication rather than the employees themselves).

    Below is a list of questions I've already been asked, and my answers. First I will give a quick background on Total Rewards.

    -------------------------------------------

    Total Rewards is the players' club at Caesars properties. It is universal among all properties Caesars owns.

    When you join the program, you are automatically the "Gold" level, which is the bottom. If you play the pit games or machines at their properties, your level can rise to one of the other three levels: Platinum, Diamond, or Seven Stars (listed in ascending order).

    You will also earn "Rewards Credits" which can be used to comp yourself at their properties. Reward Credits, also known as RCs, are generally worth 1 cent each at Caesars properties, and can be used to pay for pretty much anything on-property except for tips.

    You also earn Rewards Credits when you play WSOP events. Here are the charts for the Rewards Credits you earn depending upon the events you play:



    Using the chart above, if you play a $1000 buyin event at the WSOP, you earn a whopping 500 RCs, worth $5.

    As I mentioned, you will also earn RCs if you play pit games or machines.

    At slot machines, you will earn one RC for every $5 bet. At video poker, you will earn one RC for every $10 bet (except some machines where it's worse, and it's noted on the machine). At blackjack and other pit games, it's a weird formula that is based upon your average bet, skill level, and length of play. Your RCs are NOT affected by whether you win or lose.

    ------------------------------------

    General questions and answers:

    Q: Is it true that you can use RCs to buy into WSOP events?

    A: Yes, but I don't suggest it. This is because they basically cut the value of your RCs in half. Recall that RCs are worth one penny each at Caesars properties in restaurants, paying hotel charges, bars, gift shop, etc. RCs are only worth half a cent each when buying into WSOP events, so this is a terrible value.


    Q: Do RCs last forever if I don't spend them?

    A: Nothing is "forever", and it's important to note that Caesars is somewhat in financial trouble, and some theorize that "banked" RCs could become worthless if they end up declaring bankruptcy or sell off their properties. However, I'm not too worried about this at the moment. More importantly, you will lose all of your RCs if you don't earn at least one every 6 months. If you don't visit a Caesars property at least once every 6 months, you might want to get the Total Rewards Credit Card, where you will earn 1 RC for every dollar spent, and this will satisfy the one-per-6-months requirement.


    Q: Do RCs work at all restaurants at Caesars properties?

    A: In general, yes, especially in California and Nevada. In some other states, certain restaurants only allow you to use RCs at half value (that is, two RCs per penny credit). You should never spend your RCs at half value. When booking dinner reservations, you should ask two questions: "Do you take RCs?" and "Are they redeemed at a 1:1 rate?" Again, as of this writing, all Caesars properties in California and Nevada take RCs at 1:1 to my knowledge.


    Q: Do RCs work at The Forum Shops at Caesars Palace?

    A: No. This technically isn't part of the Caesars Palace hotel and casino, even though it's connected.


    Q: If I earn RCs at one property, can I spend them at another?

    A: Yes. You can spend them at any Caesars-owned property.


    Q: Can you suggest some good restaurants in Las Vegas where I can use my RCs?

    A: Most are at Caesars Palace. This includes "Old Homestead Steakhouse", "Nobu", "Bobby Flay's Mesa Grill", "Rao's", and "Strip House" (at Planet Hollywood). You should double-check if Strip House takes RCs because they aren't owned by Caesars and might have changed their policy. At the Rio, there isn't much to get excited about. There are some okay restaurants, but these are inferior for the most part to the Caesars Palace offerings Note that Nevada locals (with ID) get at 25% discount at all Rio restaurants (as well as 20% off at Cafe Matorano at Paris).


    Q: Do I get any other discount using my RCs at restaurants?

    A: Yes, you don't pay sales tax, so you will save another 8.1% in Nevada, and similar amounts elsewhere.


    Q: I have a Platinum card. What good does it do me?

    A: Not much, Here are the benefits you get for having a Platinum card:
    - 15% discount at Gift Shops
    - Some priority lines
    - Status match on WSOP.com to "Platinum", which is 12% rakeback


    Q: I have a Diamond card. What good does it do me?
    - You don't pay the Resort Fees when staying at the hotel
    - 20% discount at Gift Shops
    - Can exchange RCs for freeplay at the rate of $1 per 175 RCs (lower tiers it's $1 per 200 RCs)
    - Priority valet parking (from personal experience, this is hit-and-miss though)
    - Free access to "Diamond Lounges" where you can get free snacks and drinks, including alcohol
    - Special lines at cashier and restaurants
    - Special VIP check-in area
    - Ability to use Diamond Room (same as payout room) to buy in to WSOP events
    - Status match on WSOP.com to "Diamond", which is 15% rakeback
    - Ability to cut in waiting list line at live WSOP cash games
    - 20% discount on Norwegian Cruises
    - Additional benefits if you become a "higher level Diamond"
    - Free parking in Atlantic City


    Q: I have a Seven Stars card. What good does it do me?
    - All of the Diamond benefits
    - Exchange RCs for freeplay at the rate of $1 per 125 RCs
    - Free hotel nights (up to 4-5 consecutive) at any Caesars property, provided you book 48 hours in advance
    - Trip to any Caesars property with up to $1200 airfare covered and $500 in food credit (one per year)
    - "Free" Norwegian Cruise (actually heavily discounted) with Balcony stateroom (one per year)
    - Gift from catalog worth about $200
    - $500 single meal at a Caesars owned restaurant (one per year)
    - "Signature Event" to choose from
    - 35% discount on Norwegian Cruises
    - 25% discount at Gift Shops
    - Special allowances by request, such as squeezing you into certain full restaurants (you need to ask for these, and will be provided at their discretion)
    - Status match to "Seven Stars" on WSOP.com, meaning 30% rakeback
    - Limousine from airport at certain properties
    - Free upgrade to better room types, if available (but usually not suites)
    - Access to Seven Stars lounges at certain properties
    - Free internet and in-room movies at most properties


    Q: Does Seven Stars status mean that you're going to get a baller suite and lavish meals on the house every time you visit a Caesars property?

    A: No. That's a myth. Stuff like that is reserved for the huge whales. If you barely made Seven Stars, you aren't going to get much beyond the benefits listed above. The main benefit to Seven Stars is the free rooms anytime, including popular dates like New Year's.


    Q: I am a Diamond member and I can't even get a freaking comped room for the World Series at the Rio. WTF is going on here?

    A: Your status doesn't mean much as far as the comps you receive. That is more based on your recent and semi-recent play. It is quite possible that a Gold member who has played a lot recently will get better and more lucrative offers than even some Seven Stars members! However, Seven Stars members always have the right to a free room if booked 48 hours in advance, regardless of their play.


    Q: How long does my Total Rewards tier status last?

    A: It lasts until January 31st two calendar years after you earned it. So if you earned your Diamond on August 3, 2016, you will remain at least a Diamond member until January 31, 2018. After that, you will receive the level based upon what you earned the previous year.


    Q: So does that mean I could simply earn my status once every two years and remain there uninterrupted?

    A: Yes. If you earn a status between January 1 and January 31, you will have it until January 31 two years later. So, for example, if you earn Diamond on January 28, 2016, you will remain Diamond until January 31, 2018 even if you don't play at all.


    Q: Are WSOP bracelet winners Diamond for life?

    A: No. Last I heard, they are only Diamond until January 31 two calendar years later. So 2016 WSOP winners will have the Diamond status until January 31, 2018.


    Q: My host told me he can't comp anything for me until I've spent all of my RCs. He suggested I frivolously spend them to get them down to zero, and then he will take care of me after that. Is this a good idea to do?

    A: If you are a degenerate gambler who will always be shooting off in the pits, yes. Otherwise, no. The best thing about RCs is that you can "comp yourself" at your own pace, and never need to justify it with future play. If you shoot off your RCs and need hosts to comp you, then you will be at their mercy and they will only give you comps based upon how much you've played. It is true, however, that hosts aren't supposed to comp you without using up your RCs, so be careful when asking them for "comps" or they may just be taking your RCs to give you what you think are "comps".


    Q: I have some freeplay. What is the best way to run it for maximum value?

    A: I would suggest blackjack (but make sure the freeplay chips "stay until you lose", and make sure you pay a 3:2 paying blackjack game), or video poker (but make sure the paytable is good, and you understand the proper strategy).


    Q: I used my RCs at a restaurant. Can I use them to tip? Am I expected to tip normally?

    A: You can't use them for tips, and you are expected to tip with cash as if you paid normally.


    Q: I got in trouble at the WSOP for smoking pot on premises and I am currently banned from Caesars properties. Can I appeal this?

    A: Yes. Call security, ask for the reinstatement/appeal procedure. I would suggest claiming that you have quit smoking pot and apologize for what you did, and promise that you will never violate this or any policy again. You can also do this for most other reasons you're banned, unless it was for stealing, cheating, or card counting after being warned not to.


    Please post any other questions here.

  2. #2
    Good info. I like the idea of the TR credit card. Sometimes I don't get to Vegas twice a year and using that card seems like an easy way to keep my RC's.

  3. #3
    Isn't it "Caesars Palace" and "Caesars Entertainment" without apostrophes? Caesars Palace is supposed to imply every guest is a Caesar, not that it is ruled from on high by one Caesar.

  4. #4
    a couple questions for druff and others

    in your opinion, is the total rewards program better than similar programs offered by other casinos? i'd like to make regular trips to vegas and was wondering if one loyalty program was better than another, assuming i will probably be gambling only a few times a year. one thing i don't like is that the harrah's properties are not the ones i would ordinarily want to stay at, although caesars is ok.

    also, re the TR Visa card, i tend to put everything on my credit card and then just pay it off completely every month, probably close to $60,000 a year. if i had the TR Visa, and since gas, groceries and travel get double points, i would probably end the year with like 80,000 points.

    am i correct that 80,000 points would be worth $800 in comps? is there anything else that my points would get me that i may not be thinking of -- other advantages to getting the TR Visa?

    also are there similar credit card partnerships offered by any other casinos?

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    Diamond chinamaniac's Avatar
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    Also want to add that the way they issue the comps @ WSOP is sort of scammy now.

    They credit your Total Rewards Card 24-48 hours AFTER the event you play. I would guess in most cases people are hopping on planes or driving back home after they bust. Not all players but I would guess a good portion.

    So if you bust and want to get a meal from the comps you got from an event then you have to wait 24-48 hrs. Then if you don't use the points within 6 months they take them away. Again i would guess most of these players will just have to forfeit the comps.

    They are making millions off of this

  6. #6
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chinamaniac View Post
    Also want to add that the way they issue the comps @ WSOP is sort of scammy now.

    They credit your Total Rewards Card 24-48 hours AFTER the event you play. I would guess in most cases people are hopping on planes or driving back home after they bust. Not all players but I would guess a good portion.

    So if you bust and want to get a meal from the comps you got from an event then you have to wait 24-48 hrs. Then if you don't use the points within 6 months they take them away. Again i would guess most of these players will just have to forfeit the comps.

    They are making millions off of this
    Now that's actually something I didn't know. I guess it's because I have a ton of RCs (sick brag, I know), so all I cared about was whether they actually showed up, and I didn't really monitor the time frame.

    If this is true (and I believe you), that's really bad. It's especially bad because RCs show up nearly instantly when you gamble in other parts of the casino.

    I'm sure their excuse will be, "Well, you can unregister and have used the RCs before doing so", but they could fix that by simply applying the RCs 7 hours after the event starts (when you can't unregister anymore).

  7. #7
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blake View Post
    a couple questions for druff and others

    in your opinion, is the total rewards program better than similar programs offered by other casinos? i'd like to make regular trips to vegas and was wondering if one loyalty program was better than another, assuming i will probably be gambling only a few times a year. one thing i don't like is that the harrah's properties are not the ones i would ordinarily want to stay at, although caesars is ok.

    also, re the TR Visa card, i tend to put everything on my credit card and then just pay it off completely every month, probably close to $60,000 a year. if i had the TR Visa, and since gas, groceries and travel get double points, i would probably end the year with like 80,000 points.

    am i correct that 80,000 points would be worth $800 in comps? is there anything else that my points would get me that i may not be thinking of -- other advantages to getting the TR Visa?

    also are there similar credit card partnerships offered by any other casinos?
    Total Rewards isn't anything special unless you make the Diamond level. Below that, it's quite ordinary.

    Diamond isn't that hard to achieve, and the benefits are fairly good compared to other casino loyalty programs.

    Seven Stars has by far the best benefits for any loyalty program that I know of. The reason for this is because it somewhat contradicts the basic casino model of "recent play defines the comps". Seven Stars guarantees you certain benefits for the duration of the time you have the card (anywhere from 13 to 25 months, depending upon what time of year you earn it), even if you don't put a single penny of play in during your time with the card. The best benefit, at least for me, is the ability to stay 4-5 straight days comped GUARANTEED at any Caesars property.

    However, it's not cheap to get to Seven Stars (the least -EV way still will cost you $2300 in theoretical losses, and often way more than that due to high variance), and it also requires a good deal of hours spent playing to make it there.

    Regarding the TR VISA:

    I wouldn't recommend it for daily purchases. The benefits just aren't that good, and as you mentioned, you only earn RCs which can only be used at Caesars properties.

    I would suggest you take a look at the credit card bonus whoring thread: http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sho...-bonus-whoring

    I am like you in that I never carry a balance on my cards and just pay them off. For many years I was happy with just getting 1 airline mile per $ spent, like a chump.

    Then I realized the wonderful world of credit card bonus whoring, where you just keep applying for credit cards with large initial bonuses for spending, cancel them after a year (before the fee kicks in), and repeat. Also you can get cards where you get as much as 6% in certain categories, such as groceries, gas, restaurants, etc.

    Right now I am getting 5% back on all gas bought on one card, and 3% back at all restaurants. I have another card which gives me a flat 2% back on everything, so I never do worse than that.

    Also, a lot of people fear their credit score suffering from doing this, but I haven't seen it. My FICO score was 812 last I checked.

    The TR VISA is really only good for three things:

    1) You get 5 RCs per $ spent at Caesars properties
    2) You get an okay signup bonus (I think 10,000 RCs for spending $750)
    3) You can use it every so often to show activity on your RCs and keep them from expiring

  8. #8
    How does freeplay work exactly? Is it a good idea to cash in RCs for this?

    How many RCs are needed to make Diamond and Seven Stars and approximately what sort of poker cash game action would that equate to?

    Why couldn't you live at Caesars for free all year round just booking in advance and moving on? Or more realistically, how long do you need to wait before coming back to the same property?

  9. #9
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnFanningsLimpDick View Post
    How does freeplay work exactly? Is it a good idea to cash in RCs for this?

    How many RCs are needed to make Diamond and Seven Stars and approximately what sort of poker cash game action would that equate to?

    Why couldn't you live at Caesars for free all year round just booking in advance and moving on? Or more realistically, how long do you need to wait before coming back to the same property?
    Freeplay works just like cash, EXCEPT you have to "run it once" in machines, and in the pits you get promotional chips that can "play until they lose".

    For example, if you have $100 in freeplay, and insert the ticket into a video poker machine, you will have to bet $100 worth of hands before you can cash out. So let's say you are playing a $1 machine which is $5 per hand at max-coins. You insert the $100 voucher (do NOT insert any cash), run 20 hands, and hit cashout. It will cash out whatever you have left, and that's your profit.

    Freeplay at the tables is slightly different. Let's say you have four $25 freeplay chips ($100 total). These work just like regular $25 chips except you can't cash them out. So you keep playing with only the freeplay chips until they finally lose, and then cash out your winnings (which are paid in real money).

    It is not suggested to trade RCs for freeplay unless you are Seven Stars, because the exchange rate will be poor. RCs exchange to freeplay at half value (200 RCs per dollar of freeplay), and even at diamond you have to use 175 RCs to get a dollar of freeplay. Seven Stars can get a dollar of freeplay at 125 RCs, so that can be worth it if you're not going to otherwise spend the RCs elsewhere on-property.

    Regarding hotel rooms, you need 48 hours in between stays. You cannot stay in any same-market Caesars hotel room (even if you pay) during these 48 hours, or you can't get another free 4-5 days.

    However, in theory you could spend 5 days per week at certain Caesars property for free, provided you had somewhere else to go for the other two.

    The official rules starting 2014 state that you need 96 hours between stays, but that is not being enforced -- at least not yet.

    Prior to mid-2013, there were shenanigans ways to dodge this 48 hour requirement, but you can't do it anymore.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnFanningsLimpDick View Post
    How many RCs are needed to make Diamond and Seven Stars and approximately what sort of poker cash game action would that equate to?
    RCs don't make your status.

    Tier credits do. Tier credits have no value other than determining your status, though.

    Think of RCs like FPPs on Stars, and tier credits like VPPs.

    You need 15,000 tier credits to make Diamond, and 150,000 tiers to make Seven Stars.

    You earn one tier credit for every $10 bet in video poker, and one tier credit for every $5 bet in slots. Table games are variable with no published rate of accumulation.

    If you earn 500 tier credits in a "Caesars day" (usually 6am-5:59am), you earn 125 extra tier credits.
    If you earn 1000, you earn an extra 1000.
    If you earn 2500, you earn an extra 5000.
    If you earn 5000, you earn an extra 10,000.

    Therefore, to maximize value, you need to play exactly either 2500 tiers in a Caesars day, or exactly 5000.

    The minimum number of sessions required to optimally earn Seven Stars is ten.

    If you were to do this under optimal circumstances, you would play $5 99.54% Jacks or Better (though not in Vegas, because those give you 1/5 as many tiers at these high-odds games), and run $50,000 through the machine. This would earn you 15,000 tier credits, and you would have an expected loss of $270 (though likely much higher in many cases because of variance and top-heavy payouts for Royals). It would take about 4-5 hours doing this, provided you play reasonably fast.

    You would immediately make Diamond doing this. Do it 9 more days and you will make Seven Stars.

    It's also important to know that there's approximately a 39% chance you hit a Royal throughout your 10 sessions above. If you hit at least one Royal, you will likely come out a winner. However, if you don't hit a Royal, you are expected to lose about $13,000 in your quest for Seven Stars.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnFanningsLimpDick View Post
    How many RCs are needed to make Diamond and Seven Stars and approximately what sort of poker cash game action would that equate to?
    RCs don't make your status.

    Tier credits do. Tier credits have no value other than determining your status, though.

    Think of RCs like FPPs on Stars, and tier credits like VPPs.

    You need 15,000 tier credits to make Diamond, and 150,000 tiers to make Seven Stars.

    You earn one tier credit for every $10 bet in video poker, and one tier credit for every $5 bet in slots. Table games are variable with no published rate of accumulation.

    If you earn 500 tier credits in a "Caesars day" (usually 6am-5:59am), you earn 125 extra tier credits.
    If you earn 1000, you earn an extra 1000.
    If you earn 2500, you earn an extra 5000.
    If you earn 5000, you earn an extra 10,000.

    Therefore, to maximize value, you need to play exactly either 2500 tiers in a Caesars day, or exactly 5000.

    The minimum number of sessions required to optimally earn Seven Stars is ten.

    If you were to do this under optimal circumstances, you would play $5 99.54% Jacks or Better (though not in Vegas, because those give you 1/5 as many tiers at these high-odds games), and run $50,000 through the machine. This would earn you 15,000 tier credits, and you would have an expected loss of $270 (though likely much higher in many cases because of variance and top-heavy payouts for Royals). It would take about 4-5 hours doing this, provided you play reasonably fast.

    You would immediately make Diamond doing this. Do it 9 more days and you will make Seven Stars.

    It's also important to know that there's approximately a 50% chance you hit a Royal throughout your 10 sessions above. If you hit at least one Royal, you will likely come out a winner. However, if you don't hit a Royal, you are expected to lose about $13,000 in your quest for Seven Stars.
    Sorry Druff I'm still not clear on everything:

    Why would you play $50,000 worth of Video Poker to get 5000 tier credits rather than $25,000 worth of slot play? It's virtually the same EV-wise isn't it? And maybe slot players get treated better comp-wise as they're regarded as more degenerate.

    Does $5 Jacks or Better mean actually betting $25 per hand?

    If so why waste time playing when you could just do 250 spins at $100 a pop for the same tier credits?

    (though not in Vegas, because those give you 1/5 as many tiers at these high-odds games) <---- What does this mean?

  12. #12
    Hi, long time lurker, new poster. I have a couple of questions
    Why does Caesers Vegas casinos give less points on VP than out of state casinos? Every Caesers casino in Vegas does this?
    Why is ten the minimum number of sessions required to optimally earn Seven Stars? I can play faster if I want to right?

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by ShawnFanningsLimpDick View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post

    RCs don't make your status.

    Tier credits do. Tier credits have no value other than determining your status, though.

    Think of RCs like FPPs on Stars, and tier credits like VPPs.

    You need 15,000 tier credits to make Diamond, and 150,000 tiers to make Seven Stars.

    You earn one tier credit for every $10 bet in video poker, and one tier credit for every $5 bet in slots. Table games are variable with no published rate of accumulation.

    If you earn 500 tier credits in a "Caesars day" (usually 6am-5:59am), you earn 125 extra tier credits.
    If you earn 1000, you earn an extra 1000.
    If you earn 2500, you earn an extra 5000.
    If you earn 5000, you earn an extra 10,000.

    Therefore, to maximize value, you need to play exactly either 2500 tiers in a Caesars day, or exactly 5000.

    The minimum number of sessions required to optimally earn Seven Stars is ten.

    If you were to do this under optimal circumstances, you would play $5 99.54% Jacks or Better (though not in Vegas, because those give you 1/5 as many tiers at these high-odds games), and run $50,000 through the machine. This would earn you 15,000 tier credits, and you would have an expected loss of $270 (though likely much higher in many cases because of variance and top-heavy payouts for Royals). It would take about 4-5 hours doing this, provided you play reasonably fast.

    You would immediately make Diamond doing this. Do it 9 more days and you will make Seven Stars.

    It's also important to know that there's approximately a 50% chance you hit a Royal throughout your 10 sessions above. If you hit at least one Royal, you will likely come out a winner. However, if you don't hit a Royal, you are expected to lose about $13,000 in your quest for Seven Stars.
    Sorry Druff I'm still not clear on everything:

    Why would you play $50,000 worth of Video Poker to get 5000 tier credits rather than $25,000 worth of slot play? It's virtually the same EV-wise isn't it? And maybe slot players get treated better comp-wise as they're regarded as more degenerate.

    Does $5 Jacks or Better mean actually betting $25 per hand?

    If so why waste time playing when you could just do 250 spins at $100 a pop for the same tier credits?

    (though not in Vegas, because those give you 1/5 as many tiers at these high-odds games) <---- What does this mean?
    You're right, I left out the above details in my answer to you. I will expand below.

    Slots have a MUCH worse rate of return than video poker. That's why they earn tier credits twice as fast. It's not worth it to cycle money through slots, because you will get absolutely clobbered. The only exception is to do what Allen Kessler does -- painstakingly stalk "progressive" machines and only play when they're +EV, but this is difficult and time-consuming to do, and not really a way to earn a lot of tier credits quickly and easily.

    Yes, $5 video poker machines are actually $25 per hand. This is because you always want to play "max credits" (5), or your expected return goes WAY down (due to being severely underpaid on Royals for fewer than max credits).

    Why am I advocating playing $5 video poker for 4-5 hours rather than just sitting at a $100 machine and getting it done 20x faster? One word: Variance. The higher the denomination played, the higher the variance. Keep in mind that video poker is a high variance game to begin with (due to the top-heavy Royal payout, which you will hit approximately once every 40,000 hands), so playing $100 video poker would be a devastator to your bankroll if you run badly in the few hands you play.

    What do I mean by the video poker in Vegas earning 1/5 the tier credits as elsewhere? Well, basically the Caesars Vegas market realized that they were making it too easy to "grind" to Seven Stars at these high-return machines like 99.54% Jacks or Better. Basically they don't want you to do what I described in my earlier post, because you will make Seven Stars with only $2300 average loss (assuming perfect play). While there's a lot of variance there, the average loss will indeed be $2300 stretched over a number of people. And they don't want you getting Seven Stars for that.

    To thwart this, they changed the high-return machines to give you one tier credit for every $25 or $50 bet instead of one tier every $10 bet. This makes earning your tier credits 2.5-5x as slow, and obviously changes the whole plan.

    So you should avoid those machines. You can explore the Caesars video poker offering by going to this thread: http://pokerfraudalert.com/forum/sho...-around-the-US

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nathaniel View Post
    Hi, long time lurker, new poster. I have a couple of questions

    Why does Caesers Vegas casinos give less points on VP than out of state casinos? Every Caesers casino in Vegas does this?

    Why is ten the minimum number of sessions required to optimally earn Seven Stars? I can play faster if I want to right?
    I answered your first question in the previous post (look near the end).

    Ten is the minimum number of sessions if you want to play optimally. This is because of the bonus tier credits.

    If you play EXACTLY 5000 tier credits ($50,000 coin-in), you will earn 10,000 bonus tier credits, for a total of 15,000 for the day.

    However, if you keep playing after 5,000 tiers earned in one day, you will not earn any bonus tier credits, so this isn't worth doing. You need to stop at exactly 5,000 and not play again until the next day, if you want to play the fewest number of hands to get to Seven Stars.

    Also important: You should not play unless you will earn a minimum of 2500 tier credits in a day. This is because 2500 earns 5000 bonus, but the other bonus tier awards are not as good. So basically when you sit down, you should either play EXACTLY 2500 or 5000 tier credits, and you should commit to do so regardless of how well or poorly you're running at the game.

  15. #15
    Plutonium Brittney Griner's Clit's Avatar
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    I'm lost on one thing. As a seven star you can get a free room for 4-5 days in a row. How many times can you do that during the year?

  16. #16
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brittney Griner's Clit View Post
    I'm lost on one thing. As a seven star you can get a free room for 4-5 days in a row. How many times can you do that during the year?
    Unlimited, but you need to wait 48 hours between stays.

  17. #17
    Diamond Hockey Guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Druff View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Brittney Griner's Clit View Post
    I'm lost on one thing. As a seven star you can get a free room for 4-5 days in a row. How many times can you do that during the year?
    Unlimited, but you need to wait 48 hours between stays.
    I wonder if Michael Borovetz knows this?
    (_) ..
    ∫\ \___( _)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hockey Guy
    I'd say good luck in the freeroll but I'm pretty sure you'll go on a bender to self-sabotage yourself & miss it completely or use it as the excuse of why you didn't cash.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Nathaniel View Post
    Hi, long time lurker, new poster. I have a couple of questions
    Why does Caesers Vegas casinos give less points on VP than out of state casinos? Every Caesers casino in Vegas does this?
    Why is ten the minimum number of sessions required to optimally earn Seven Stars? I can play faster if I want to right?
    There is no way to be sure but I actually believe this forum played a part into Caesar's changing their VP Tier Credit Payouts.

    There is a thread that exists on this site where Druff goes into depth about the value of Seven Stars and I go into how you could earn Seven Stars for like $200 in expected loss.

    If you look at the timeline of when Caesar's changed their policy it was a couple months after this thread came out.

    Also this thread Indexes well for things like "Cheapest way to get Seven Stars" so I like to think that PFA was responsible for changing Caesar's policy.

  19. #19
    Today I signed up for the Visa TR card. I already have an online profile on the regular TR website. How do I "link" those? I dont see anywhere on the Visa TR card website that lists my TR number.
    It's hilarious that we as a society think everyone can be a dr, a lawyer, an engineer. Some people are just fucking stupid. Why can't we just accept that?

  20. #20
    Owner Dan Druff's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jsearles22 View Post
    Today I signed up for the Visa TR card. I already have an online profile on the regular TR website. How do I "link" those? I dont see anywhere on the Visa TR card website that lists my TR number.
    I don't know the answer to this one. For me, it happened automatically. Call up customer service for the credit card and find out.

    To be honest, after you get the initial rewards for spending the first $750 in 90 days, it's not a very good card, and is inferior to most rewards credit cards.

    For most purchases, you get 1 RC for every dollar spent. An RC is worth a penny at Caesar's properties, but worthless everywhere else, so they're not as good as a real penny.

    The Capital One Quicksilver card has no annual fee, and gives you 1.5% real cash back on all purchases. Here is the link to it: http://www.capitalone.com/credit-car...-cash-rewards/

    If you have a business with a TIN, you can apply (and likely get approved for) a better version of the Quicksilver called the SPARK card. The SPARK gets you 2% real cash back on all purchases: http://www.capitalone.com/business-c...-cash-rewards/

    The TR card is only good to use for purchases at Caesar's properties, as you get 5 RCs for every dollar spent. Otherwise you really shouldn't bother with it, once you've earned your initial spending bonuses.

    However, it does have one other benefit to some infrequent gamblers. Using it once every 6 months will keep your RCs from expiring if you are in danger of that happening.

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